Thank you Sea Breeze for your reply to my question; you gave excellent answers.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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Happy (Substitution) Resurrection Sunday !
by Sea Breeze inwhy is the substitution atonement hidden under piles of nonsense in wt literature?
the bottom line is that those who join the the wt as adults, found a religion that agrees with their personality and nature.
yes, they will say jesus makes it possible, but each jw gets to individually take credit for their own salvation.
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Disillusioned JW
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Why are JW's THIS blind?
by BoogerMan ini had a conversation about this 22 carat gold contradiction with a couple of zealous jw's a couple of days ago.. even their personal "explanations" contradicted each other as they tried justify their cognitive dissonance!.
an absolute delight to witness such absurdity.. "after all, no one will be allowed to practice vile things in the new world.
the unrighteous must have practiced these vile things [john 5:29] before their death.
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Disillusioned JW
I am saying that the WT article is saying that during the millennium no person will practice evil deeds, tough some people might commit some evil deeds. According to the WT, during the millennium some badness (and maybe even some evil deeds) will take place, but according to the WT God will intervene to prevent people from making a habit (a practice) of committing evil deeds.
But keep in mind that though I believe the WT (and maybe even the book Revelation) is teaching the above, I also believe there will not be a 1000 year rule of Jesus Christ in which Satan will be in the abyss. That is because I am now an atheistic naturalist who is convinced that (despite what the Bible teaches) Satan the Devil never existed, that Jesus never became resurrected, and that Jesus never lived in heaven.
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Why are JW's THIS blind?
by BoogerMan ini had a conversation about this 22 carat gold contradiction with a couple of zealous jw's a couple of days ago.. even their personal "explanations" contradicted each other as they tried justify their cognitive dissonance!.
an absolute delight to witness such absurdity.. "after all, no one will be allowed to practice vile things in the new world.
the unrighteous must have practiced these vile things [john 5:29] before their death.
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Disillusioned JW
Notice that the WT also used the word "practiced" as a modifier on page 19 paragraph 18.
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Why are JW's THIS blind?
by BoogerMan ini had a conversation about this 22 carat gold contradiction with a couple of zealous jw's a couple of days ago.. even their personal "explanations" contradicted each other as they tried justify their cognitive dissonance!.
an absolute delight to witness such absurdity.. "after all, no one will be allowed to practice vile things in the new world.
the unrighteous must have practiced these vile things [john 5:29] before their death.
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Disillusioned JW
ExBethelitenowPIMA is correct in saying that the WT did not contradict themselves in regards to what is quoted in the opening post of this topic thread. Months ago in a different topic thread the same subject was discussed and I explained there that there was no contradiction by the WT in that matter.
BoogerMan and others, on p. 18 paragraph 14 the WT defines what they mean by a person who is resurrected as an unrighteous person. That kind of person is defined by the WT as one who practiced vile things before their death and subsequent resurrection. Furthermore, when the WT said "The unrighteous must have practiced these vile things before their death" the WT is writing about a death which was experienced before their resurrection during the 1000 years, and thus a death experienced before the start of the 1000 years - not a death during the 1000 years (as punishment/execution) and not a death at the end of the 1000 years. It also says that during the 1,000 years no one will be allowed to practice vile things, it does not say that during the 1000 years that no one will be allowed to do a vile thing. That is an important distinction to keep in mind. There is a big difference between doing something once and making a practice of doing something.
On page 19 paragraph 18 the WT says that those who are resurrected during the 1000 years will be judged by the deeds (good and/or bad) they do during the 1,000 years. But, notice that on page 18 the WT used the word "practiced" as a modifier.
During the years when I was an active baptized JW (in the 1980s through the 1990s) the WT literature explained what they meant by their use of phrase "practice sin" (instead of simply saying "sin" or "do a sin") and in one verse in the WT's 1984 NWT NT (in a letter of John, I think) they draw a distinction between that phrase of "practice sin" (or something close to it) and the phrase "commit a sin" (or a phrase close to it). Basically the one practicing vile things are ones who repeatedly do vile things, rather than those who did a vile only once (or perhaps only twice or so). It is kind like one of he criteria the JW elders use when deciding if a guilty JW should be disfellowshipped or not, or if the person should be publicly reproved or not. Namely, the elders try to determine if the person made a practice of doing the wrong, a habit of doing the wrong, or not.
The WT teaching of the judgment of people during the 1000 years is more comparable to what currently happens to people in probation (such as by the prison system, by an employer to an employee, and by parents to their child), than it is comparable to the doctrine of purgatory. The purgatory doctrine says that people will suffer in purgatory (while being judged) until they have been purified.
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Has the Governing Body EVER apologized for anything?
by Wild_Thing ingeoffrey jackson testified to the arc that the governing body has apologized for things in the past, so an apology to sexual abuse victims is "perceivable".
what has the governing body ever apologized for?.
22 q. just on that point, mr jackson, has the governing body23 considered apologising to survivors of child sexual abuse24 at the hands of elders within the organisation?25 a. i haven't been in any discussions with regard to that.26 27 q. is that something that you foresee might happen ‐ in 28 other words, that an apology at least be considered?29 a. the governing body has apologised on other matters, so30 for me to say ‐ i can't speak collectively for everybody, 31 but we have apologised on things in the past, in other32 areas, so it is perceivable.. .
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Disillusioned JW
Which article was it, regarding the plane? What content did the bound volume have to replace both articles? I wish to check my 1980 bound volume of the Awake!.
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Happy (Substitution) Resurrection Sunday !
by Sea Breeze inwhy is the substitution atonement hidden under piles of nonsense in wt literature?
the bottom line is that those who join the the wt as adults, found a religion that agrees with their personality and nature.
yes, they will say jesus makes it possible, but each jw gets to individually take credit for their own salvation.
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Disillusioned JW
Sea Breeze, do you believe in "once saved, always saved - even for those who later become atheistic naturalists"?
In one of Paul's letters Paul said fornicators (as well as a number of other types of sinners) won't enter God's kingdom, but many Christians who supposedly became saved are such sinners. According to scripture, are those Christians really saved or are they instead blocking from entering God's kingdom? The WT governing body members claim to have the heavenly hope, to be anointed ones, to be in the new covenant, and to have Christ as their mediator. According to scripture, are they thus saved?
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If Jesus' Resurrection Were a Hoax....
by Sea Breeze inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23unllbos3w .
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Disillusioned JW
More broadly (if I recall correctly), Paul said if there is no resurrection (or he said if there will be no resurrection) of the dead, then Christians are the most to be pitied. I am now an atheist ex-JW and ex-Christian who believes there is no resurrection of the dead.
It is indeed pitiable when people make major personal sacrifices due to a belief and hope in something which is not reality. A great many people have wasted much of their life in some of their practices of religion (whether of Christianity or of something else).
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How to be Thrown under the JW Bus
by Vanderhoven7 ini think we produced this by group think and bears reiterating.. if you don’t want to be thrown under the bus in jw land, you best not.
1. verbalize disagreement with any official teaching of the society.. 2. celebrate your child’s birthdays.
3. celebrate christ’s birthday on december 25th or any other date.. 4. socialize with others who have already been thrown under the bus.. 5. take up smoking.
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Disillusioned JW
Smoking defiles the body and is deadly. I am very grateful that it is now banned in all workplaces (other than businesses which specifically are for smoking) in the USA. I am also thankful that smoking is banned by the WT for all JWs and that the kingdom halls around the whole are environments free of tobacco smoke. I am thankful that I was raised in a household entirely of nonsmokers, and in a home that was free of smoke (other than from food cooking in the kitchen and from some smoke from wood burning in the fireplace). Secondhand tobacco smoke in the home is extremely hazardous to human health, and I am so glad I was never exposed to it at my home, at the schools I attended, in the government buildings I entered, and while working indoors.
I am also glad that JWs are mandated to never join a military. When I read the OT Bible (and the NT prophecies in Revelation of war) I am appalled by accounts of wars and various other killings of humans in the name of YHWH/Jehovah God, and in killings of humans that were not done in God's name. Reading those accounts (including the account in Esther chapter 9 of an enormous massacre, in regards to the beginning of the Jewish/Hebrew holiday [a so-called 'holy day'] of Purim) depresses me. To the extent that I the believe that some the biblical accounts of such killings are factual, I am very angry that such killings happened.
Likewise I am appalled and depressed of the accounts of wars in more recent times, including of the wars from 1914 onward.
I am also appalled and sometimes depressed when reading WT literature which glories the so-called future war by the so-called Jehovah God of the so-called Armageddon, despite me believing such a war will never happen. I am appalled and sometimes depressed by it because the message of such is an unpleasant concept. It is one thing to promote the so-called God's defense of his so-called people, and another to promote that such will be by killing billions of other people. Likewise appalling is the message that Jehovah God will execute atheists and all worshipers of a nonJW religion, and that a beast-like government (especially one which supposedly will be a worldwide government) will severely oppress and even kill enormous numbers of people.
So much of the so-called 'Holy' Bible is very disturbing, appalling, and depressing, even when a person views parts of it as fictional. Likewise, so much of the literature of the WT's JW religion has the same effect on me when I read it.
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WARNING! If you DELIBERATELY avoid the JW memorial.....
by BoogerMan in.......you will experience a fate worse than death!
you have been warned - don't come crying to me if you don't go.
you've got one month to change your mind.
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Disillusioned JW
See https://phys.org/news/2022-01-oldest-human-fossils-older.html regarding Homo sapiens.
See https://www.livescience.com/oldest-homo-erectus-fossil-dremolen.html and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus regarding Homo erectus. The last paragraph of the Live Science article says the following. "Because fossil remains of Australopithecus and Paranthropus found at Drimolen date to the same time period, this research suggests the three archaic hominins all lived side-by-side in southern Africa at the same time — albeit briefly. This era would have been a moment of transition, the researchers wrote, right before Australopithecus went extinct and Homo erectus was just beginning its nearly 2 million-year residency on Earth. Indeed, the authors concluded, it could be that fierce competition with Homo erectus and Paranthropus finally led to the demise of Australopithecus — a possibility never seriously considered until now."
The Wikipedia article says the following. "Homo erectus (/ˌhoʊmoʊ əˈrɛktəs/; meaning "upright man") is an extinct species of archaic human from the Pleistocene, with its earliest occurrence about 2 million years ago.[2] Its specimens are among the first recognizable members of the genus Homo."
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WARNING! If you DELIBERATELY avoid the JW memorial.....
by BoogerMan in.......you will experience a fate worse than death!
you have been warned - don't come crying to me if you don't go.
you've got one month to change your mind.
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Disillusioned JW
punkofnice, the WT on the cover of their Bible (and in the title page) calls their book "Holy Scriptures" and that is sufficient. A number of Jewish non-Christian translations of the OT Bible have the phrase "Holy Scriptures" on the cover (and on the title page) of their OT Bible instead of the word "Bible", likewise some non-WT Christian Bibles (such as the original edition of Darby's Bible). Some of Paul's letters use the word "scriptures" and none of the books of the Bible ever use the word "Bible".
Some non-JW Christian Bibles also include the word "Translation" in the title of their Bible (including the original edition of the Darby Bible) and the New Living Translation (NLT).
The NWT Bible is not a fake Bible. It is a real Bible and it is a good translation of the Bible. Furthermore, it is translated from manuscripts and critical texts that are far more reliable (that is, far more closer to the original wording of the books of the Holy Scriptures [at least in regards to the NT]) than those used by the translators of the KJV.
The WT uses the phrase "New World" as part of the title of their Bible because starting around the year 1950 the WT started saying that a "New World" society of people (consisting of devout JWs) had come into existence. I think it also because that at that time JWs were thinking that the biblical New World was very soon to be brought into existence by Jesus Christ (of course JWs have often thought it is very near).